43 thoughts on “London Dada Work No. 244: Bibi’s Proud Victory”

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3. Mike – I like this work very much. In reply to the “Israel is wrong/Hezbollah is wrong” they’re as bad as eachother. Lobbing high explosive into civillian areas is terrorism, whether it’s done by a Syrian rocket or US laser guidance. The idea that 500lbs of RDX somehow “discriminates” between terrorists and children is utter nonsense.

   All that’s played is a game of semantics: “Doctrine of Double Effect” by two sides who have equally egregious backgrounds.

   I see this piece of work depicting those who suffer as a result of this bickering, which is gtting lost in the curent press obseesion of whois to blame.

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4. Mike, that photo is brilliant mate, it says it all.

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   • Thanks Rob, it seemed to appear out of nowhere on a country lane, standing alone on a concrete plinth in a slate quarry. I knew I could use the image somehow and this is what it was destined for.
     I see Israeli govt. are getting cold feet about the great ground invasion they had planned. Instead miles of tanks queing around the border. Maybe they’ve had word of the reception committee planned for them.
     Strange how a third world economic state can afford the weaponry and arsenal of a small superpower huh? There’s some $billions in blood money being transferred from somewhere – and we all know from where.

     Jeez they’re a bunch of bad bastards.

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     • I think that picture great too, I think we become immune to the graphic shots of death and destruction, they seem unreal but that picture really brings home what Israel is doing.

       “Jeez they’re a bunch of bad bastards”

       Yep!

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5. There is no blanket bombing policy by Israel. On the contrary and unlike the Hezbollah Israel is trying to hit specific targets AND is issuing warnings prior to such attacks for civilians to evacuate those areas.

   As for worldwide public opinion if you actually look at the statements coming out from world opinion, including that of many Arab states in the region and one later retracted article by the Lebanese government itself you’ll find that is squarely and firmly directed AGAINST Hezbollah whilst at the same time expressing concern about overkill by Israel.

   From everything I can see Hezbollah has signed it’s own death-warrant and will be significantly damaged and removed from operating with the Sovereign state of Lebanaon.

   Thanks
   Matt

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   • Thanks for that Matt. I can recommend you have a quick look at Steph’s recent post and long string of interesting comments by a dozen or so pretty clued-up bloggers which I think might answer your points. Catch her at http://www.Magnumblogs.blog.co.uk

     My penny’s worth would be that every military expert I’ve seen wheeled on by both BBC1 & 2, C4/ITV and BBC Radio 4 – which I almost continually listened to for several days this week whilst travelling – has maintained Hezbollah will not be defeated nor even significantly weakened by the present Israeli genocidal sledgehammer-to-crack-a-walnut approach.

     In fact some even go on to say if Israel goes ahead with a ground invasion, as now seems likely, it is likely to suffer such losses that it will be the one seeking a way out through negociation.

     Meantime, strange that so many hundreds of innocent Lebanese civilians are dying horrible deaths through “targeted” shelling, don’t you think?

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     • I have already engaged with Steph [ain’t she just gorgeous] and a few other bloggers on the Israel situation with no significant agreement reached.

       I agree that Hezbollah will not be defeated as in wiped out but they have already suffered 50% damage rate to their capabilities and more is to come. Why do you think Syrish and company are calling so much for an immediate ceasefire? It is because they can see that Israel is determined to eradicate the Hezbollah and Hezbollah has no real capability to prevent this from happening.

       The use of the word ‘genocial’ is wholly inacurrate and emotional.

       Israel does not need to fear the Hezbollah nor will it lose out to them. Even if Syria had the balls to support them they will lose. [My prediction only of course].

       If Lebanese civilians refuse to evacuate an area that they have been warned is going to be bombed then it is their own responsibility if they become casualties of war. That isn’t to say that every person killed has received such a warning but refers only to those that have and remained with their family.

       War is not a casuality free zone and tragic as it is, it happens. I note you make no reference to the deaths of the Israeli soldiers in their own territory or to the Jews/Arabs who have been killed by the indiscriminate bombing of Hezbollah. I wonder why?

       Thanks
       Matt

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     • I make no reference to the Israeli casualties because the BBC already do a brilliantly sexed-up one-sided job of that.

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     • “If Lebanese civilians refuse to evacuate an area that they have been warned is going to be bombed then it is their own responsibility if they become casualties of war. ”

       So if a country invades a neighbouring one, they can kill anyone they have warned? I didn’t spot that part of the Geneva Convention…

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     • Any country engaged in war has a responsibility under the Geneva convention towards the civilian population of their targets. Israel has in my view did everything in its power to meet their obligations to that convention whereas Hezbollah have, and continue to, breach it with every rocket they launch [without prior warning].

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     • Here’s a guy who has somehow convinced himself that the kidnap of two soldiers justifies the virtual laying waste of the infrastructure of another country, the slaughter of 400 of its children and the brutal coersion of a million of its citizens to flee in terror.

       It’s logic Jim – but not as we know it.

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     • Logic is the science of correct reasoning. I seek at all times to apply that to all my statements and arguments, although freely admit I don’t get it right all the time hence welcoming correction.

       What I don’t do, nor will become involved in is personal attacks on fellow bloggers. Such is contrary to reason, civility and the spirit of the site.

       Thanks
       Matt

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     • You see Matt, when the actuality of Israeli genocide and long-term brutalitiy towards another entire race of people is put to you direct, you retreat into paranoia that you are being attacked. This is exactly Israel’s problem too.

       We are NOT attacking you nor the Jews, Matt, we are trying to tell you that something is actually missing within. Call it compassion, heart quality, sense of fair play, whatever.

       That is something that goes beyond logic. Why do you insist on putting all your eggs in that sole intellectual basket as the criteria of your conclusions?

       All sides in this conflict must develop the inner qualities compassion and forgiveness that go way beyond logic, together with practical steps in terms of re-dressing the balance of land, homes and occupations stolen and rights destroyed before any peace can break out.

       We don’t see that in any of your “logic” Matt. That’s the problem.

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     • Your remark was ad hominem implying that you and those that agree with you have a right logical view of the situation whilst I have some sort of other weird logic that produces a skewered conclusion.

       Compassion, heart quality, sense of fair play, pictures of mangled wheel chairs or dead civilians, or whatever else of a similar nature you want to mention DOES not play ANY part of the rational argument about the FACTS of the Middle East hence why you won’t find those things in my logic.

       Those things are part and parcel of all human beings but cannot be allowed to obfsucate the facts.

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     • Matt; I feel we have reached a kind of limit here, where readers of comments on this post can evaluate for themselves exactly where you stand on this matter. You’ve done a very good job in ignoring the obvious and exposing the true machinations of your “logical” inner self to the world, and I shall leave others to form their own conclusions.

       All I can add is that one cannot force a flower to grow and blossom. Everything in creation has its own time and rythm.

       I thank you for your contributions.

       MStM

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     • lol…. yes, I agree that now is a good time for you to bow out of the conversation given that logic and facts will dictate it and not emotionalism and rhetoric.

       Thanks for your time and, should you choose to respond I will take it as the last word on the subject on this thread between us 🙂

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     • Quite frankly Matt, I find your attitude on the subject offensive. Of course that’s a personal opinion, that if you choose to ignore the obvious – and the obvious solutions – that’s up to you.

       You can and do convolute and hyperbole and skirt around the periphery of this serious subject to your mind’s content, but black will never be white and most people can, believe it or not Matt, actually tell the difference at the end of the day.

       They do say philosophy is the art of making a simple thing sound complicated. It can be used as a vehicle to impute a sense of superiority and justification for the phoney assumption that intellect is might and 100% right. I’m afraid to have to tell you you are sadly mistaken because a balance between “head and heart” is the key to stability and security, whether in the individual or between entire nations.

       The logic of one and one making two applies in the world of impersonal mathematics. You are trying to extrapolate that logic and apply it in the entirely different (subjective) dimension of human interaction.

       The creative thinking needed to resolve the middle east problem will never emerge from dull brains terminally locked into “logic” based soley on memory – even the most actual factual memory – which is the dead past.

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   • as if issueing a warning is going to make it alright then.

     I suppose if we Brits, for example, had been in a similar situation and a foreign power had declared that they were going to bomb London because some terrorists had their base there, that we would have fucked off out of it without a murmour.

     So thats Ok then?

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     • Issuing a warning is a humanitarian measure that shows the intent of Israel is to hit only hostile Hezbollah forces.

       If only Hezbollah had the same humanitarian concerns and cared about what or who they hit!

       Britain, indeed any Sovereign nation, would respond forcefully to any such action of a similar nature to the Hezbollah. They would eradicate the aggressor whilst ensuring the security of their own civilians up to and including necessary evacuations.

       Thanks
       Matt

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     • Why didn’t the British Government send in the army to bomb and shell Republican areas of Belfast in the 1980s and 1990s, when the IRA’s bombing campaigns were in full swing over here?

       Maybe because they sensed their cause ( not the means, obviously ) was just? Or maybe they considered the lives of Irish civillians to be actually worth a shit. – more like.

       As is Hezbollah’s cause just. Bollocks-head Blair in the HOC at QT last week took the starting point of this conflict as the Hez’s rocket attacks. That’s not actually so; in order to understand any conflict you need to have accurate information as to the real origins and unfortunately our Zionist-controlled media aint never going to give that out to the population of this country.

       Your arguments just don’t stack up at all, Matt.

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     • My view is that Britian has always been, and is soft on terrorism. Israel is not. Perhaps if more countries, including the UK followed its lead in rooting out terrorists wherever they choose to hide they’d be less dead British citizens from terrorist attacks, including those that were conducted by the IRA.

       I have followed the media’s coverage of the Israel situation and do not consider it has a Zionist agenda but is generally balanced in its presentation of the facts. [You can take this as also being a response to your other post on the media coverage].

       Arguments are only useful when used with those prepared to interact with them.

       Thanks
       Matt

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     • Matt, if the British Government had been tough on terrorism the fact is there would have been no state of Israel founded on land stolen from Palestine after the war, when the Stern gang of Zionist militants planned to assassinate the then British Foreign Secretary and other high profile figures as well as blow up the Rotherhithe tunnel.

       Not to mention killing over 500 British peacekeepers and countless other massacres and atrocities they perpetrated on the indigenous innocents to secure “their” homeland ( see Rob’s blog on that one ). Maybe you should try interacting with this argument first.

       “In April 1948, Begin’s Irgun, another Zionist group, the Stern Gang and members of the mainstream Haganah, followed up the hotel bombing by massacring 254 Palestinians from the village of Deir Yassin. The aim was to terrorise Palestinians into flight. And that worked too. By the time it was over they’d depopulated over 400 towns and villages and driven 700,000 people from their lands and businesses.” – extract from http://www.uruknet.info

       You see, all arguments are multi-faceted and you really must try and engage with all sides in order to resolve the conflict as a whole.

       The Israeli government simply must recognize the grave injustices historically perpetrated upon the Palestinian people by their dubious state and develop at least a shred of compassion and generosity in their steely murderous hearts.

       Ps See http://www.medialens.org for the stats actuality on BBC reporting. It’s easy to become accustomed to brainwashing, you might not even notice an acute bias after a while of watching the Zionist-controlled BBC.

       The big question everyone who cares about resolving this mess should be emailing the BBC is ” When are you going to give us a complete and accurate history of this problem ”

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     • Bloody hell Mark! I was going to make the selfsame comparison but the weekends are a blog free zone for me.

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     • Should be for me too Denny, esp. in this weather but I’m a compulsive writer and probably a blogaholic ( have I just coined a new term there? ). My excuse is the Open golf was a processional paint-drying session yesterday. Why do golfers all seem to have the personalities of ironing boards? Strange that.

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     • dunno, but they sure as hell don’t have the ironing board bodys on show.
       Not so much a six pack as several 22kg Kegs.

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     • Lol.
       Monty, Calchavachio and now even Mickolson barging sweating and grunting their hefty ways down the leader board – it’s the finest sight in golf.
       To win a Major over 54 holes these days you can’t avoid having to develop a slim toned bod’ like ironing board-Tiger.

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   • There Bullshit then there’s fact. Its a fact that Israel warned South Lebanon to fuck off before the Jewish Einsatzgruppen arrive (ethnic cleansing), its also a fact that they bomb all routes out of South Lebanon, which makes it impossible for everyone to get out (genocide). Another fact Israel has been bombing the shit out all Lebanon deliberately targeting civilian areas, Mosques, schools and hospitals (genocide).

     Another fact is that Hezbollah gave advance warning that they would fire rockets at Israel and capture some of their reprobates, if they didn’t return the Lebanese hostages. They also told told the Zion-Nazi that they would continue bombing their cities if they carry on bombing Lebanon. And get this of the 39 Jews killed, 3 were kids the rest were soldiers or reserves.

     If you look at World wide opinion instead of Quoting the House of Saud (House of Bush) it’s only Zionists that support the Jewish state, the rest of the world despise Israel, as Israel like to bang on about every five seconds. Even the British gov has finally had to come clean and admitted that the Zion-Nazis are committing genocide.

     Kim Howells: “The destruction of the infrastructure, the death of so many children and so many people — these have not been surgical strikes.

     “And it’s very, very difficult, I think, to understand the kind of military tactics that have been used. You know, if they’re chasing Hezbollah, then go for Hezbollah. You don’t go for the entire Lebanese nation.”

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     • Hi anywhichway……

       Ok.. let’s try to seperate the facts from the bullshit.. please source the following claims:

       “Another fact Israel has been bombing the shit out all Lebanon deliberately targeting civilian areas, Mosques, schools and hospitals (genocide)”.

       “Another fact is that Hezbollah gave advance warning that they would fire rockets at Israel and capture some of their reprobates, if they didn’t return the Lebanese hostages”.

       “And get this of the 39 Jews killed, 3 were kids the rest were soldiers or reserves”.

       Like the media today [that you roundly condemn as being Zionist no doubt] you take the parts from Mr Howell’s interviews that suit your view and ignore the parts that don’t where he roundly condemned Hezbollah and stated Israel’s right to defend itself.

       His ‘complaint’ was about proportionality as has been the case with others in and out of Britain.

       Thanks
       Matt

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     • Maybe first you should answer my previous about Israel being founded on terrorism by terrorists who ethnically cleansed the area of the majority of Palestinians and shovelled them into refugee (concentration) camps on the periphery where the land is virtually infertile. Gaza is the most densely populated (squashed by Israel) parcel of land on earth.

       Don’t say that doesn’t matter because it was 50 years ago Matt, because a people have long memories, especially when their families and their lives got and are still getting spat on, trodden upon and destroyed. Turning the other cheek is a fine ideal, but in the real world you get a reaction. That’s human nature.

       Israel should own up to its terrorist past, not to mention present, that it itself was founded on other peoples’ land after WW2 by a gang of murdering thugs on a nod and a wink from USA and Britain. They have no moral legitimacy whatsoever to exclusive occupation of that land they call Israel. Still less to continue to repress the rightful heirs to that land.

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     • I’d imagine that if you dig into the past of most countries you’ll find that at some point they were viewed as ‘terrorist’ organistations whereas they themselves described themselves as ‘freedom-fighters’. What is key in all those situations is when the bullet is exchanged for the ballot-box and they reform themselves into a genuine political party recognising human rights and the rule of law. This applies as much to Hezbollah and Hamas as it did to Israel.

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     • Yes but we’re talking about this specific conflict and I’m saying that to resolve it we must look at the entire story, from the beginning – to treat the problem holistically and totally historically. You’re trying to generalize your way out of accepting that Israel has a moral obligation to do that.

       Also, historically whenever countries have been invaded, the occupied peoples have been allowed at least to integrate with the new system – not so with Israel who have excluded an entire race from their own homes/occupations. The words “conscience” “compassion” and “generosity” seem absent from the Zionist vocabulary. The only other time in history total exclusion of an entire race from a land was attempted involved a madman with a moustache, lots of deportation cattle trucks full of Jews and “work” camps. How ironic is that?

       To say that Israel recognizes human rights is a sick joke. The only rule of law they go by is the law of the gangster and the bully boy.

       The fact is the Zionists have repressed and subjugated an entire peacefully co-existing people off of their ancestoral homeland and packed them into sqalid camps, denying them basic human rights. Then when some of them decide to have a pop back you call that terrorism.

       The Beeb have done a good job on you over the years my boy. Some sheer nerve you’ve got.

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     • I don’t disagree that any country or people has a moral obligation to look at the historical setting of their current status. [That includes the Palestinians and maybe when they do so they do so with regret for a missed opportunity to become a state under the rules of partition in 1948].

       That being said, looking at the historical situation is not in anyway going to change the current position unless you think countries like Israel, America, Australia etc. are going to suddently renounce their statehood in remorse at how they historically came to be!

       As I have said before and as you and your anti-Israeli colleagues ought to wake up to,

       Israel is an internationally recognised state.

       That ain’t going to change anytime soon.

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     • Don’t you have a search engine, you can find all of that on al-Jazeera and the BBC!!!

       Rob isn’t ignoring the the rest of Howell’s statement, he not quoting because it not relevant, to whether Israel is committing genocide. “Even the British gov has finally had to come clean and admitted that the Zion-Nazis are committing genocide”, implies the British gov are pro Zionist. Take it as read that the British goverment are anti Arab and anti Hezbollah.

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     • Hi Steph…..

       Yes, I have a search engine [which I am using often since encountering your and anywhich way and marks and babaks views lol] but I am under NO obligation to substantiate the claims that another individual makes as being the ‘facts’.

       Needless to say I don’t agree that:

       A) Rob didn’t ignore the rest of Howell’s statement.
       B) That the rest of the statement was irrelevant.
       C) That the British govt has admitted that ‘Zion-Nazis’ are committing genocide.
       D)That it can be taken as read that the British govt are anti-Arab.

       I do agree they are anti-Hezbollah, but so are most of the world, including Lebanon!

       Thanks
       Matt

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     • “I do agree they are anti-Hezbollah, but so are most of the world, including Lebanon!

       Not true, the Times reports that “80 per cent of Lebanese Christians, 80 per cent of Druze and 89 per cent of Sunnis support Hezbollah”.

       “I am under NO obligation to substantiate the claims that another individual makes as being the ‘facts’

       If you’re going to ask someone to source the obvious or challenge someone on a fact yes you need to do research first.

       When I challenged your statement about Hezbollah, I knew your statement was false and gave you a source your likely to accept.

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     • In my first statement I was meaning the Lebanese government but at google search [see I do actually do them] failed to produce a definitive current statement either way on their position. That being so, I will retract the phrase, ‘including Lebanon’ and than you for the corrections.

       I think if you look at the context of my demand for sources you’ll understand the reason for it. If an individual is going to start throwing around phrases like ‘bullshit and facts’ with the implication that they are stating the facts and the other is stating bullshit then it is perfectly legitimate to then say, ‘Ok, let’s examine your claim’. 🙂

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6. Interesting; like Lebanon’s crumbling because of Israel’s overreaction!

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   • Journalists are saying this time it’s going to be worldwide public opinion against Israel’s massive and genocidal over-the-top response to three kidnappings of soldiers that will eventually make them stop and negociate.

     Interesting. And we’re doing our bit Ros, for sure. Don’t underestimate the power of perceptive thought to spread like a chain letter, worldwide. Really.

     TVM for the comment, hope you are coping with the London heat? As for myself, I’m melting. I wish I’d stayed in Scotland another few days.

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     • I’m trying to do as little as possible!

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   • interesting, like this somehow helps?

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     • It’s highlighting the other side of the story -for a change.

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